AUGUST ABOLINS wrote:

@SUBJECT:negate the new Win11 "requirements" N Hello Ky.Moffet!

** On Monday 15.12.25 - 04:32, Ky.Moffet wrote to Daryl Stout:

Install using Rufus to negate the new Win11 "requirements" .
Use OpenShell to get a proper Start Menu back
Use Winaero Tweaker to nuke the various annoyances, and fix things like
choice of fonts

I'm reading that Win11 is truly quite the anti-privacy OS.

Yeah, lots of telemetry. However, my experience is it's easier to locate
and disable than it was in Win10, which also had it. And Win11 is less
likely to turn it all back on with the next update.

TPM + CoPilot + Bitlocker + SecureBoot ..all work together and
strip your ability for privacy when you want it.

They would, but all can be disabled.

The point isn't so much snooping as accustoming everyone to everything
being in the cloud and by subscription. That, IMO, is what TPM and
Bitlocker are really about -- now that we have near-universal broadband, Microsoft's old wet dream of Windows by Subscription is becoming
practical. Enterprise business welcomes this, because it offloads a huge amount of liability and expense. They are Microsoft's real customers.
Home users are not customers, we are a support cost..

The problem with embedded AI is that it has to consult the cloud to
generate its responses. Naturally that also generates data, similar to
that from using Google (which tracks you like nothing else).
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Hello Ky.Moffet!

** On Friday 26.12.25 - 19:05, you wrote:

TPM + CoPilot + Bitlocker + SecureBoot ..all work together and
strip your ability for privacy when you want it.

They would, but all can be disabled.

I've read that if some systems already come with bitlocker
activated, deactivating it triggers a lock on the current ssd/
hdd, ..and reversing bitlocker state will not recover. so,
then the only option is to reainstall the Win OS.

The point isn't so much snooping as accustoming everyone to
everything being in the cloud and by subscription. That, IMO,
is what TPM and Bitlocker are really about

Well.. TPM ties the device to the activity on the PC, and that
identity is shared to the mothership - MS.

-- now that we have near-universal broadband,
Microsoft's old wet dream of Windows by Subscription is
becoming practical. Enterprise business welcomes this,
because it offloads a huge amount of liability and expense.
They are Microsoft's real customers. Home users are not
customers, we are a support cost..

Businesses should consider linux, imho. The costs could then be
less! :D

The problem with embedded AI is that it has to consult the
cloud to generate its responses. Naturally that also
generates data, similar to that from using Google (which
tracks you like nothing else).

Yep. It's a sad commentary.
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Re: Re: negate the new Win11
By: August Abolins to All on Sun Dec 28 2025 10:17:00

Businesses should consider linux, imho. The costs could then be
less! :D

Unfortunately, it's not as easy as that. Medium to large companies are notoriously slow to changes in their IT setup due to cost and time required. Companies will stick with a system as long as possible, even if they have to pay for the priviledge to do so. Where I work is a good example. We're using computers that are at least 10 years old, we're still using Windows 10 (which didn't happen for over a year after its release) and we're using software that's two and three versions old.

Then there's the business mentality, which is even harder to over come. Thanks to Microsoft's marketing and hard-handed deals with hardware manufacturers over the decades, businesses believe MS is the only way to go and so have become entranched with that ecosystem. The idea of giving that up for whole new setup, even if is better, faster, cheaper, would be unthinkable in their minds.

This isn't anecdotal. this situation has been written up numerous times over the years in various business and texh magazines, as well as my own experiences where I work.
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AUGUST ABOLINS wrote:

Hello Ky.Moffet!

** On Friday 26.12.25 - 19:05, you wrote:

TPM + CoPilot + Bitlocker + SecureBoot ..all work together and
strip your ability for privacy when you want it.

They would, but all can be disabled.

I've read that if some systems already come with bitlocker
activated, deactivating it triggers a lock on the current ssd/
hdd, ..and reversing bitlocker state will not recover. so,
then the only option is to reainstall the Win OS.

This happened with Win11 Home (NOT Pro or Workstation) after one
particular update. It is not the norm. And you can permanently decrypt
the drive, if you haven't lost your bitlocker key, tho I imagine it's a
long slow job. If you've lost your key, and don't have it stored in the associated Microsoft account, you're SOL.

In fact, you can use Winaero Tweaker to disable updates, if you want. (I
did that on one of the netbooks because for some reason it's already
fallen out of support, and it kept trying to update. So I disabled
updates, end of problem.)

The point isn't so much snooping as accustoming everyone to
everything being in the cloud and by subscription. That, IMO,
is what TPM and Bitlocker are really about

Well.. TPM ties the device to the activity on the PC, and that
identity is shared to the mothership - MS.

Easy fix: Disable the TPM chip in the BIOS, or unplug it from the
motherboard.

Use Rufus to install Win11 and you don't need TPM. I'm sitting right
next to such a Win11 system as we speak. It doesn't even have TPM, at
all. It only has a local account, not a Microsoft account. Cortana is disabled, and there is no SecureBoot.

-- now that we have near-universal broadband,
Microsoft's old wet dream of Windows by Subscription is
becoming practical. Enterprise business welcomes this,
because it offloads a huge amount of liability and expense.
They are Microsoft's real customers. Home users are not
customers, we are a support cost..

Businesses should consider linux, imho. The costs could then be
less! :D

It's been tried. A whole city system in Germany attempted it for a year
or so, and fled back to Microsoft. Another is trying it right now, I
expect that to end similarly. Linux has gotten better, but your options
are extremely limited (see below).

Unless you're running webservers, or databases (in which case you should
use BSD, not linux) it's impractical. There are just too many ways for
the average desktop distro to break.

So you're confined to either Ubuntu (Canonicall) or Fedora (RedHat),
because that's where you can get a support contract, and you're stuck
with the Gnome** desktop (because it's much more locked in, and is also
the only one that's officially supported).

And Ubuntu lost its marbles and decided they must rewrite the core utils
in Rust, and at present the rewrites are only about 90% functional (when
they shipped it, basic things like TIME weren't working) which caused
chaos. There's a lot of DEI insanity and
everything-must-be-rewritten-in-Rust nonsense going on in the linux
world right now, and if I were a business IT department, I'd be backing
away at top speed. Business can't afford the downtime, which can amount
to millions of dollars per MINUTE.

And if you don't have a support contract, that is a legal liability
problem because you are not "conforming to industry standards" and if something goes wrong, YOU are the easy target in court.

** I loathe Gnome, I'd rather stick forks in my eyes. Fedora is
supposedly going to start supporting KDE, which is vastly more flexible,
but that is also the problem -- KDE is difficult to lock down for
support purposes (support needs everything identical everywhere).

I like my linux boxen, but I have no illusions about its broader
practicality.
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AUGUST ABOLINS wrote to ALL and Ky.Moffet

-- now that we have near-universal broadband,
Microsoft's old wet dream of Windows by Subscription is
becoming practical. Enterprise business welcomes this,
because it offloads a huge amount of liability and expense.
They are Microsoft's real customers. Home users are not
customers, we are a support cost..

I half-figure us individual end-users are the experimental group: we
have the most variety and mish-mash of hardware + software, so if the OS portion works for us should work for business.

Businesses should consider linux, imho. The costs could then be
less! :D

AFAIK not required to upgrade the hardware constantly! That's a huge
savings right there!

The store I worked for did switch to Linux for the point of sale
systems. After the conversion I was part of the group to open the
registers and make sure everything looked OK. All we were told is
there's a new system installed. ....Why does this look familiar??
...Oh!!!! :) The registers did have a major boost in response!

The problem with embedded AI is that it has to consult the
cloud to generate its responses. Naturally that also
generates data, similar to that from using Google (which
tracks you like nothing else).

Yep. It's a sad commentary.

So I have a question: what happens when one can't connect for whatever
reason? ...Oh yeah: nothing! Just like when AWS goes down, MS 365,
someone does an upgrade at the ISPs and crashes the system.


- r
- BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET r
- r


... In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with 'g'.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

AUGUST ABOLINS wrote to ALL and Ky.Moffet

> -- now that we have near-universal broadband,
> Microsoft's old wet dream of Windows by Subscription is
> becoming practical. Enterprise business welcomes this,
> because it offloads a huge amount of liability and expense.
> They are Microsoft's real customers. Home users are not
> customers, we are a support cost..

I half-figure us individual end-users are the experimental group: we
have the most variety and mish-mash of hardware + software, so if the OS portion works for us should work for business.

Yeah, figure that's the main reason they don't entirely give us the boot.

AA> Businesses should consider linux, imho. The costs could then be
AA> less! :D

AFAIK not required to upgrade the hardware constantly! That's a huge
savings right there!

Except when you get sued for not using supported devices.

There's where business is presently at: any device or software has to be officially supported (even if that's a third party support contract)
because otherwise you open yourself to liability lawsuits. So perfectly
good hardware gets replaced when it goes out of warranty support, and
software by subscription was a huge relief because no more worrying
about being in compliance -- THAT liability is now all on the software
vendor.

My sister's architecture firm (she's effectively second in command, and
they have offices worldwide) won't even keep a car or a phone that's no
longer under warranty. If they design a building and something goes
wrong and the building falls down, even if it's NOT THEIR FAULT -- if
the chain of liability lands on, say, an outdated version of AutoCAD,
that is out of compliance with industry standards, and that will get
them soaked in court to the tune of billions of dollars. Same with
computer hardware. Or phones, or cars, or anything else.

The store I worked for did switch to Linux for the point of sale
systems. After the conversion I was part of the group to open the
registers and make sure everything looked OK. All we were told is
there's a new system installed. ....Why does this look familiar??
..Oh!!!! :) The registers did have a major boost in response!

I doubt it was due to linux, which until you get to the Win10 era,
generally needed more hardware under it than Windows did to have the
same performance for the same task. But removing cruft, or updating the network connection.....

You hear the opposite, but I have done straight-across compares on the
same hardware, multiple times. And there are distros that make Win10
look snappy... linux performance is much more constrained by hardware
I/O and bus speed. Or why Win10 on spinning rust is fine, but linux on
the same disk is sluggish.

> The problem with embedded AI is that it has to consult the
> cloud to generate its responses. Naturally that also
> generates data, similar to that from using Google (which
> tracks you like nothing else).
AA> Yep. It's a sad commentary.

So I have a question: what happens when one can't connect for whatever reason? ...Oh yeah: nothing! Just like when AWS goes down, MS 365,
someone does an upgrade at the ISPs and crashes the system.

There is the problem with all mandatory online everything, not only AI
but also software as a service and product activation... what happens
when there is no internet? or when the activation server dies and isn't replaced? (I'm lookin' at you, Adobe.) That is in fact a good reason to
use an activation crack (when one exists) even on legit-purchased software.

.. In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with 'g'.

A narrating clearly necessitating a course in remedial English, for one
who doesn't put nutmeg in their hot cocoa. But sure is nosing around
memes online....perhaps their brain suffered a necrotizing infection. <g>

https://word-lists.com/word-lists/list-of-words-starting-with-n-and-ending-with-g/
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Hi Ky!

> -- now that we have near-universal broadband,
> Microsoft's old wet dream of Windows by Subscription is
> becoming practical. Enterprise business welcomes this,
> because it offloads a huge amount of liability and expense.
> They are Microsoft's real customers. Home users are not
> customers, we are a support cost..
I half-figure us individual end-users are the experimental group: we
have the most variety and mish-mash of hardware + software, so if the OS portion works for us should work for business.

Yeah, figure that's the main reason they don't entirely give us
the boot.

We serve a purpose: guinea pigs!!

AA> Businesses should consider linux, imho. The costs could then be
AA> less! :D
AFAIK not required to upgrade the hardware constantly! That's a huge savings right there!

Except when you get sued for not using supported devices.

From a causual look the 'supported devices' seem fairly generous: CPU of
at least x generation, RAM of y amount. ...Suppose that rapidly gets a
lot more specific when it comes to the motherboard, video card and
monitor, peripherals like bar code scanners.....

There's where business is presently at: any device or software
has to be officially supported (even if that's a third party
support contract) because otherwise you open yourself to
liability lawsuits. So perfectly good hardware gets replaced when
it goes out of warranty support, and software by subscription was
a huge relief because no more worrying about being in compliance
-- THAT liability is now all on the software vendor.

The laywers are making all kinds of money!

My sister's architecture firm (she's effectively second in
command, and they have offices worldwide) won't even keep a car
or a phone that's no longer under warranty. If they design a
building and something goes wrong and the building falls down,
even if it's NOT THEIR FAULT -- if the chain of liability lands
on, say, an outdated version of AutoCAD, that is out of
compliance with industry standards, and that will get them soaked
in court to the tune of billions of dollars. Same with computer
hardware. Or phones, or cars, or anything else.

Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and
getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear: we
get to buy refurbished stuff!!

The store I worked for did switch to Linux for the point of sale
systems. After the conversion I was part of the group to open the
registers and make sure everything looked OK. All we were told is
there's a new system installed. ....Why does this look familiar??
..Oh!!!! :) The registers did have a major boost in response!

I doubt it was due to linux, which until you get to the Win10
era, generally needed more hardware under it than Windows did to
have the same performance for the same task. But removing cruft,
or updating the network connection.....

I'm thinking it was removal of the cruft, a portion of which was due to switching the system from Microsoft to Linux: they had to rewrite/update
a ton of programmes which that in itself probably cleared out a bunch of
junk. I don't know the details of which Microsoft version, which Linux version, etc., but from the looks of the boot it was an old Windows and
a reasonably new Linux.

You hear the opposite, but I have done straight-across compares
on the same hardware, multiple times. And there are distros that
make Win10 look snappy... linux performance is much more
constrained by hardware I/O and bus speed. Or why Win10 on
spinning rust is fine, but linux on the same disk is sluggish.

I haven't played like that but makes sense. My _extremely_ limited experiences between Windows and Linux were Linux was either faster or
about the same. And I need to note this comparison was done decades
ago.

> The problem with embedded AI is that it has to consult the
> cloud to generate its responses. Naturally that also
> generates data, similar to that from using Google (which
> tracks you like nothing else).
AA> Yep. It's a sad commentary.
So I have a question: what happens when one can't connect for whatever reason? ...Oh yeah: nothing! Just like when AWS goes down, MS 365,
someone does an upgrade at the ISPs and crashes the system.

There is the problem with all mandatory online everything, not
only AI but also software as a service and product activation...
what happens when there is no internet? or when the activation
server dies and isn't replaced? (I'm lookin' at you, Adobe.) That
is in fact a good reason to use an activation crack (when one
exists) even on legit-purchased software.

Yup: had that with my old X10 utility ActiveHome Pro. Company
essentially folded (portions remained) but the call-in-to-see-if- legitimately-registered-software portion was broken. Good news: worked
until until reboot or worked until tried to change something, I forgot
which. Someone did create a bypass.

.. In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with 'g'.

A narrating clearly necessitating a course in remedial English,
for one who doesn't put nutmeg in their hot cocoa. But sure is
nosing around memes online....perhaps their brain suffered a
necrotizing infection. <g>

Did you miss 'nothing'?!

https://word-lists.com/word-lists/list-of-words-starting-with-n-an d-ending-with
g/

Good grief! Now I'm wondering if there is a site dedicated to words
rhyming with 'orange'!

¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®


... Bought some naval oranges: got innies and outies.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

> AA> Businesses should consider linux, imho. The costs could then be
> AA> less! :D
> AFAIK not required to upgrade the hardware constantly! That's a huge
> savings right there!
KM> Except when you get sued for not using supported devices.

From a causual look the 'supported devices' seem fairly generous: CPU of
at least x generation, RAM of y amount. ...Suppose that rapidly gets a
lot more specific when it comes to the motherboard, video card and
monitor, peripherals like bar code scanners.....

Win11's current requirement an 64bit CPU with the SSE 4.2 instruction
set (specifically the POPCNT function), which came in with the Core2Duo.
This was added as of the 22H2 release. 21H2 will actually run on an
earlier CPU (someone got it running on an early Pentium 4, tho it was painful), but is no longer "supported" (21H2 updates ended about a year
ago).

And despite that instruction set supposedly requiring at least a Haswell
Intel CPU, I can assure you current Win11 runs perfectly fine on an Ivy
Bridge CPU. [points at Fireball]

So... *technically* as far back as the earliest consumer 64bit multicore
CPUs (that actually did 64bit; some early AMD64 CPUs did not, and will
only run a 32bit OS).

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications?r=1

They seem to have dropped the previous specification of an i7-6th gen or later. Probably because all the cheap Win11 laptops were arriving with
an N-series Celeron, which is about half as fast as the earliest
Core2Duo (but uses very little power, good for battery life). And Win11
runs adequately well on those N-series CPUs, despite that they're so
much slower than an early Core2Duo.

I have two netbooks and my mom's old laptop that all have N-series
Celerons. The netbooks (4GB RAM) have Win11, and are pleasant enough; I regularly use them as portable word processors. The laptop (upgraded to
its 8GB RAM max and all of HP's crap nuked) has Win10, and it's
sluggggggish. In such poor circumstances, Win11 performs better.

KM> There's where business is presently at: any device or software
KM> has to be officially supported (even if that's a third party
KM> support contract) because otherwise you open yourself to
KM> liability lawsuits. So perfectly good hardware gets replaced when
KM> it goes out of warranty support, and software by subscription was
KM> a huge relief because no more worrying about being in compliance
KM> -- THAT liability is now all on the software vendor.

The laywers are making all kinds of money!

There's the problem! But we know what to do with the lawyers. <ggg>

KM> My sister's architecture firm (she's effectively second in
KM> command, and they have offices worldwide) won't even keep a car
KM> or a phone that's no longer under warranty. If they design a
KM> building and something goes wrong and the building falls down,
KM> even if it's NOT THEIR FAULT -- if the chain of liability lands
KM> on, say, an outdated version of AutoCAD, that is out of
KM> compliance with industry standards, and that will get them soaked
KM> in court to the tune of billions of dollars. Same with computer
KM> hardware. Or phones, or cars, or anything else.

Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and
getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear: we
get to buy refurbished stuff!!

YES!!

<crowd assembles on the curb, waiting for AI datacenters to start
churning hardware....>

Cuz the bloody AI craze is why the price of RAM quadrupled overnight,
and why SSDs suddenly got scarce (and doubled in price, and that's still rising).

> The store I worked for did switch to Linux for the point of sale
> systems. After the conversion I was part of the group to open the
> registers and make sure everything looked OK. All we were told is
> there's a new system installed. ....Why does this look familiar??
> ..Oh!!!! :) The registers did have a major boost in response!
KM> I doubt it was due to linux, which until you get to the Win10
KM> era, generally needed more hardware under it than Windows did to
KM> have the same performance for the same task. But removing cruft,
KM> or updating the network connection.....

I'm thinking it was removal of the cruft, a portion of which was due to switching the system from Microsoft to Linux: they had to rewrite/update
a ton of programmes which that in itself probably cleared out a bunch of junk. I don't know the details of which Microsoft version, which Linux version, etc., but from the looks of the boot it was an old Windows and
a reasonably new Linux.

Cruft and needless crapware makes a huge difference. My mom's "new"
(2020) laptop is an HP, and still had all the default HP spywa-- er,
helpers for this that and the other thing. And it ran at a glacial pace
-- Win10 took about ten minutes just to boot up, and forget doing any
real work on it. After I killed all HP's crapware, it boots in about a
minute and tho it's stilll sluggggggggish, it's usable. Before, it was
not. (Gonna be some other OS in its future, once I get all my mom's
stuff located and archived off. But it's a touchscreen, and maxed out at
8GB RAM, so its options are limited. Win11 would be better.)

KM> You hear the opposite, but I have done straight-across compares
KM> on the same hardware, multiple times. And there are distros that
KM> make Win10 look snappy... linux performance is much more
KM> constrained by hardware I/O and bus speed. Or why Win10 on
KM> spinning rust is fine, but linux on the same disk is sluggish.

I haven't played like that but makes sense. My _extremely_ limited experiences between Windows and Linux were Linux was either faster or
about the same. And I need to note this comparison was done decades
ago.

Back around 1998, Argo dual-booted RedHat6 and Win95. Win95 ran rings
around RH6, which was at best glacial. That was my first clue that the
hype wasn't all it seemed.

Fireball (4th gen Xeon, 64GB RAM) has about 20 HDDs with various OSs. Including:
Windows: XP64, Server2008R2 (Win7 server), Win10 Pro, Win11 Workstation
Linux: Fedora (what it presently runs), Mageia, Devuan, Debian, Mint,
others I forget. (For some unknown reason, PCLinuxOS won't run on it.)

Windows of any species boots in the range of 30 seconds to one minute,
cold to usable desktop (Server2008R2 is the slowest, but it does a bunch
of Server Stuff along the way). Fedora takes about two minutes to boot,
and another two minutes to find all its body parts. (PCLinuxOS would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay faster, if it would run.) Mageia is about the same.
Mint, Devuan, Debian are all about comparable with Windows, tho a bit
slower to load programs.

So there's a present-day, realworld comparison, on the same hardware,
with worst-case storage given it's spinning rust. I have noticed that
while an SSD or NVMe will naturally speed up any OS, linux has much more obvious benefits, because its HDD I/O is so freakin' slow and that will
never be fixed, while someone apparently wrote a proper driver, with
proper caching (lacking on the old I/O) for the SSD/PCIe family of
hardware, so that performs at the expected level.

> So I have a question: what happens when one can't connect for whatever
> reason? ...Oh yeah: nothing! Just like when AWS goes down, MS 365,
> someone does an upgrade at the ISPs and crashes the system.

KM> There is the problem with all mandatory online everything, not
KM> only AI but also software as a service and product activation...
KM> what happens when there is no internet? or when the activation
KM> server dies and isn't replaced? (I'm lookin' at you, Adobe.) That
KM> is in fact a good reason to use an activation crack (when one
KM> exists) even on legit-purchased software.

Yup: had that with my old X10 utility ActiveHome Pro. Company
essentially folded (portions remained) but the call-in-to-see-if- legitimately-registered-software portion was broken. Good news: worked
until until reboot or worked until tried to change something, I forgot
which. Someone did create a bypass.

There ya go. That's also why for the Win11 software I want for the
future (pending an expectation that Windows will become By Subscription
and basically a cloud OS) my intent is to work up a basically portable install, so if the hardware dies I can just move it to the next PC.
Win10 doesn't mind this being horsed from one PC to the next (most of
the time it doesn't even need reactivation), and I don't see why Win11
would care either.

> .. In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with 'g'.
KM> A narrating clearly necessitating a course in remedial English,
KM> for one who doesn't put nutmeg in their hot cocoa. But sure is
KM> nosing around memes online....perhaps their brain suffered a
KM> necrotizing infection. <g>

Did you miss 'nothing'?!

By then I was nodding off. <g>

KM> https://word-lists.com/word-lists/list-of-words-starting-with-n-an
KM> d-ending-with
KM> g/

Good grief! Now I'm wondering if there is a site dedicated to words
rhyming with 'orange'!

Your wish...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/what-rhymes-with-orange

My personal favorite is "door hinge". :D
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Re: negate the new Win11
By: Barry Martin to Ky Moffet on Wed Dec 31 2025 08:14:00

Good grief! Now I'm wondering if there is a site dedicated to words
rhyming with 'orange'!

It's the Internet, of course there is: https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/words-that-rhyme-with/orange.html
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MORTAR M. wrote:

Re: negate the new Win11
By: Barry Martin to Ky Moffet on Wed Dec 31 2025 08:14:00

> Good grief! Now I'm wondering if there is a site dedicated to words
> rhyming with 'orange'!

It's the Internet, of course there is: https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/words-that-rhyme-with/orange.html

<looks down the list, sees "eat someone for lunch" and becomes confused>
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Hi Ky!

> AA> Businesses should consider linux, imho. The costs could then be
> AA> less! :D
> AFAIK not required to upgrade the hardware constantly! That's a huge
> savings right there!
KM> Except when you get sued for not using supported devices.
From a causual look the 'supported devices' seem fairly generous: CPU of
at least x generation, RAM of y amount. ...Suppose that rapidly gets a
lot more specific when it comes to the motherboard, video card and
monitor, peripherals like bar code scanners.....

Win11's current requirement an 64bit CPU with the SSE 4.2
instruction set (specifically the POPCNT function), which came in
with the Core2Duo. This was added as of the 22H2 release. 21H2
will actually run on an earlier CPU (someone got it running on an
early Pentium 4, tho it was painful), but is no longer
"supported" (21H2 updates ended about a year ago).

Well I'll admit the version releases codings didn't mean a thing to me
other than identification and level, which everything has in some form.
Seems to boil down to if want Microsoft support (and presumably same for
Linux and other out there) need to play by their rules.

And despite that instruction set supposedly requiring at least a
Haswell Intel CPU, I can assure you current Win11 runs perfectly
fine on an Ivy Bridge CPU. [points at Fireball]

From my limited knowledge base it would seem as long as the computer
hardware met the general requirements of the OS it would run. AFAIK a
64 bit OS will not run on 32-bit hardware, so that would be the first
check. As you mentioned above with the SSE thing, the instruction sets
have to match. ...Keep going down the list. The more tic'd as matching
the better the odds of the old machine running on the new OS.

So... *technically* as far back as the earliest consumer 64bit
multicore CPUs (that actually did 64bit; some early AMD64 CPUs
did not, and will only run a 32bit OS).

First item on checklist! (I'm supposed to read the whole message
first??!)

They seem to have dropped the previous specification of an i7-6th
gen or later. Probably because all the cheap Win11 laptops were
arriving with an N-series Celeron, which is about half as fast as
the earliest Core2Duo (but uses very little power, good for
battery life). And Win11 runs adequately well on those N-series
CPUs, despite that they're so much slower than an early Core2Duo.

Sometimes trade-offs. A little slower, but great battery life -- that
would be good for usage at a construction site where they don't have
power outlets installed. (Heck, they bare have the walls installed!)

I have two netbooks and my mom's old laptop that all have
N-series Celerons. The netbooks (4GB RAM) have Win11, and are
pleasant enough; I regularly use them as portable word
processors. The laptop (upgraded to its 8GB RAM max and all of
HP's crap nuked) has Win10, and it's sluggggggish. In such poor circumstances, Win11 performs better.

Semi-same with my old Lenovo T61 (though running Ubuntu for
compatibility). Sluggish, but for what I need it for I'll put up with
that.

KM> There's where business is presently at: any device or software
KM> has to be officially supported (even if that's a third party
KM> support contract) because otherwise you open yourself to
KM> liability lawsuits. So perfectly good hardware gets replaced when
KM> it goes out of warranty support, and software by subscription was
KM> a huge relief because no more worrying about being in compliance
KM> -- THAT liability is now all on the software vendor.
The laywers are making all kinds of money!

There's the problem! But we know what to do with the lawyers. <ggg>

They're both handy and a nuisance.

KM> My sister's architecture firm (she's effectively second in
KM> command, and they have offices worldwide) won't even keep a car
KM> or a phone that's no longer under warranty. If they design a
KM> building and something goes wrong and the building falls down,
KM> even if it's NOT THEIR FAULT -- if the chain of liability lands
KM> on, say, an outdated version of AutoCAD, that is out of
KM> compliance with industry standards, and that will get them soaked
KM> in court to the tune of billions of dollars. Same with computer
KM> hardware. Or phones, or cars, or anything else.
Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and
getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear: we
get to buy refurbished stuff!!

YES!!

And so us individual end-users buy and start using the stuff the
OS-people told the businesses to stop using, but yet they (OS-people)
still have to semi-support the old hardware because it is capable of
using the current software.

So they large question (not 'big' <g>) is why was the old hardware
forced out?!

<crowd assembles on the curb, waiting for AI datacenters to start
churning hardware....>

(Must be virtual hardware as data is just information.)

Cuz the bloody AI craze is why the price of RAM quadrupled
overnight, and why SSDs suddenly got scarce (and doubled in
price, and that's still rising).

As with everything due to supply and demand.

...I sort of get a kick how on the game shows when reading off the list
of "wow's!" for a TV they exclaim it has an AI processor. I'm thinking
back in the old days one of the "AI processors" was the AGC circuit -- automatic gain control: too strong a signal, automatically trim it a
bit; too strong, boost it a bit.

> The store I worked for did switch to Linux for the point of sale
> systems. After the conversion I was part of the group to open the
> registers and make sure everything looked OK. All we were told is
> there's a new system installed. ....Why does this look familiar??
> ..Oh!!!! :) The registers did have a major boost in response!
KM> I doubt it was due to linux, which until you get to the Win10
KM> era, generally needed more hardware under it than Windows did to
KM> have the same performance for the same task. But removing cruft,
KM> or updating the network connection.....
I'm thinking it was removal of the cruft, a portion of which was due to switching the system from Microsoft to Linux: they had to rewrite/update
a ton of programmes which that in itself probably cleared out a bunch of junk. I don't know the details of which Microsoft version, which Linux version, etc., but from the looks of the boot it was an old Windows and
a reasonably new Linux.

Cruft and needless crapware makes a huge difference. My mom's
"new" (2020) laptop is an HP, and still had all the default HP
spywa-- er, helpers for this that and the other thing. And it ran
at a glacial pace -- Win10 took about ten minutes just to boot
up, and forget doing any real work on it. After I killed all HP's crapware, it boots in about a minute and tho it's stilll
sluggggggggish, it's usable. Before, it was not. (Gonna be some
other OS in its future, once I get all my mom's stuff located and
archived off. But it's a touchscreen, and maxed out at 8GB RAM,
so its options are limited. Win11 would be better.)

LIS I think most of the boost at the store was having to re-write the software, which got rid of the patched-patch which was a patch of a patch.......

KM> You hear the opposite, but I have done straight-across compares
KM> on the same hardware, multiple times. And there are distros that
KM> make Win10 look snappy... linux performance is much more
KM> constrained by hardware I/O and bus speed. Or why Win10 on
KM> spinning rust is fine, but linux on the same disk is sluggish.
I haven't played like that but makes sense. My _extremely_ limited experiences between Windows and Linux were Linux was either faster or
about the same. And I need to note this comparison was done decades
ago.

Back around 1998, Argo dual-booted RedHat6 and Win95. Win95 ran
rings around RH6, which was at best glacial. That was my first
clue that the hype wasn't all it seemed.

Though they've found dual booting isn't that feasible. Downright not
advised of late. Back around then I did have some computers which I
dual booted, though Windows-something and Ubuntu-something. I think the
speeds were roughly the same, though I also know I didn't experiment
between the two too much: was sort of hold on to Windows because some utilities aren't available in Ubuntu.

Fireball (4th gen Xeon, 64GB RAM) has about 20 HDDs with various
OSs. Including:
Windows: XP64, Server2008R2 (Win7 server), Win10 Pro, Win11
Workstation Linux: Fedora (what it presently runs), Mageia,
Devuan, Debian, Mint, others I forget. (For some unknown reason,
PCLinuxOS won't run on it.)

It's a diva?!

> So I have a question: what happens when one can't connect for whatever
> reason? ...Oh yeah: nothing! Just like when AWS goes down, MS 365,
> someone does an upgrade at the ISPs and crashes the system.
KM> There is the problem with all mandatory online everything, not
KM> only AI but also software as a service and product activation...
KM> what happens when there is no internet? or when the activation
KM> server dies and isn't replaced? (I'm lookin' at you, Adobe.) That
KM> is in fact a good reason to use an activation crack (when one
KM> exists) even on legit-purchased software.
Yup: had that with my old X10 utility ActiveHome Pro. Company
essentially folded (portions remained) but the call-in-to-see-if- legitimately-registered-software portion was broken. Good news: worked until until reboot or worked until tried to change something, I forgot which. Someone did create a bypass.

There ya go. That's also why for the Win11 software I want for
the future (pending an expectation that Windows will become By Subscription and basically a cloud OS) my intent is to work up a
basically portable install, so if the hardware dies I can just
move it to the next PC. Win10 doesn't mind this being horsed from
one PC to the next (most of the time it doesn't even need
reactivation), and I don't see why Win11 would care either.

To me it seems like it should follow how we log in to sites now: doesn't
matter which device as long as the user name, password, and whatever
other authentication matches.

> .. In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with 'g'.
KM> A narrating clearly necessitating a course in remedial English,
KM> for one who doesn't put nutmeg in their hot cocoa. But sure is
KM> nosing around memes online....perhaps their brain suffered a
KM> necrotizing infection. <g>
Did you miss 'nothing'?!

By then I was nodding off. <g>

Frequent slurps of fresh coffee and/or tea!

KM> https://word-lists.com/word-lists/list-of-words-starting-with-n-an
KM> d-ending-with
KM> g/
Good grief! Now I'm wondering if there is a site dedicated to words
rhyming with 'orange'!

Your wish... https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/what-rhymes-with-orange

My personal favorite is "door hinge". :D

At least it's more usable!

And for a side bit:
https://comicskingdom.com/rhymes-with-orange/2026-01-01



¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®


... Baby chick found orange in mother's coop:"Look at the orange marmalade." --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.47
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> Good grief! Now I'm wondering if there is a site dedicated to words
> rhyming with 'orange'!
It's the Internet, of course there is: https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/words-that-rhyme-with/orange.html

<looks down the list, sees "eat someone for lunch" and becomes
confused>

Well, it is a hippo, and I suppose if interpeted 'someone' for any
mammal rather than just a human....

OTOH with my pronounciations I don't get their rhyming of 'orange' with 'lunch'.


¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®


... Care to join the compulsive rhymers club? Okey-dokey.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!
KM> Win11's current requirement an 64bit CPU with the SSE 4.2
KM> instruction set (specifically the POPCNT function), which came in
KM> with the Core2Duo. This was added as of the 22H2 release. 21H2
KM> will actually run on an earlier CPU (someone got it running on an
KM> early Pentium 4, tho it was painful), but is no longer
KM> "supported" (21H2 updates ended about a year ago).

Well I'll admit the version releases codings didn't mean a thing to me
other than identification and level, which everything has in some form.
Seems to boil down to if want Microsoft support (and presumably same for Linux and other out there) need to play by their rules.

Yeah. But their rules are rather fuzzy.

Win10, on the SAME PANE:
"Your device will no longer receive security updates!
-- proceeds to download major system update and five security updates
-- and still receives daily security updates. Yesterday it got two.

And the Win7 laptop got a security update just last week!

KM> And despite that instruction set supposedly requiring at least a
KM> Haswell Intel CPU, I can assure you current Win11 runs perfectly
KM> fine on an Ivy Bridge CPU. [points at Fireball]

From my limited knowledge base it would seem as long as the computer hardware met the general requirements of the OS it would run. AFAIK a
64 bit OS will not run on 32-bit hardware, so that would be the first
check. As you mentioned above with the SSE thing, the instruction sets
have to match. ...Keep going down the list. The more tic'd as matching
the better the odds of the old machine running on the new OS.

Yeah. I think they're trying to keep it viable for hardware less than 10
to 15 years old, despite appearances. The main stumbling block is the
TPM chip, which really is entirely optional, since it's only needed if
you require disk encryption (usually a terrible idea) and Secure Boot
(not so sure that's a good idea either). TPM actually goes back a long
ways; the computer consigned to the little house is a 2009 Dell, and it
has a TPM header (not sure if it has the chip, but if you have the
header it's a plug-in module that starts at about $20 new).

KM> So... *technically* as far back as the earliest consumer 64bit
KM> multicore CPUs (that actually did 64bit; some early AMD64 CPUs
KM> did not, and will only run a 32bit OS).

First item on checklist! (I'm supposed to read the whole message
first??!)

LOL. Basics!

KM> They seem to have dropped the previous specification of an i7-6th
KM> gen or later. Probably because all the cheap Win11 laptops were
KM> arriving with an N-series Celeron, which is about half as fast as
KM> the earliest Core2Duo (but uses very little power, good for
KM> battery life). And Win11 runs adequately well on those N-series
KM> CPUs, despite that they're so much slower than an early Core2Duo.

Sometimes trade-offs. A little slower, but great battery life -- that
would be good for usage at a construction site where they don't have
power outlets installed. (Heck, they bare have the walls installed!)

That was the original point of tablet PCs. I remember when the ads all
showed construction sites!

KM> I have two netbooks and my mom's old laptop that all have
KM> N-series Celerons. The netbooks (4GB RAM) have Win11, and are
KM> pleasant enough; I regularly use them as portable word
KM> processors. The laptop (upgraded to its 8GB RAM max and all of
KM> HP's crap nuked) has Win10, and it's sluggggggish. In such poor
KM> circumstances, Win11 performs better.

Semi-same with my old Lenovo T61 (though running Ubuntu for
compatibility). Sluggish, but for what I need it for I'll put up with
that.

<looks it up> 2.4GHz Core2Duo, pretty good for a 2007 laptop. https://icecat.biz/us/p/lenovo/8895wea/thinkpad-laptops-thinkpad+t61-1758081.html

Given it was designed for Vista, probably shipped with 4GGB RAM and
spinning rust. If you haven't upgraded it and still use it, might be worthwhile, and easy enough to do. It takes up to 8GB of DDR2.

Quick how-to
(note that one must take care not to rip the ribbon cable that goes to
the touchpad)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYkefpMSBso

About a year back I paid something like $8 shipped for a couple sticks
of DDR2 laptop RAM.

> > Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and

> getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear: we
> get to buy refurbished stuff!!
KM> YES!!

And so us individual end-users buy and start using the stuff the

At a much reduced price, which will perhaps save the consumer PC market
from collapse since RAM is presently priced out of reach of anyone who
isn't Big Corporate.

OS-people told the businesses to stop using, but yet they (OS-people)
still have to semi-support the old hardware because it is capable of
using the current software.

It's nothing to do with the OS. Businesses that don't have massive
liability concerns often use quite old stuff that hasn't seen official
support in a decade. Friend supports one-man-band accountant offices
that still use computers and OSs literally old enough to vote.

So they large question (not 'big' <g>) is why was the old hardware
forced out?!

1) because the OEMs live on the 3 year churn cycle (hence the 3 year warranty), and
2) liability concerns as previously discussed. Unsupported hardware
(anything that's out of warranty) is a liability too. My sister's office
won't even keep a vehicle that's out of warranty (they sell 'em off to employees, who get a nice well-kept middle-aged car at a very good
price). And no personal vehicles allowed on job sites, has to be a
company car.

KM> <crowd assembles on the curb, waiting for AI datacenters to start
KM> churning hardware....>

(Must be virtual hardware as data is just information.)

Too bad it's not all virtual.... but the data has to live somewhere,
and be processed somewhere. However, the vast majority does run on some species of virtual machine. <g>

KM> Cuz the bloody AI craze is why the price of RAM quadrupled
KM> overnight, and why SSDs suddenly got scarce (and doubled in
KM> price, and that's still rising).

As with everything due to supply and demand.

This is an artificial demand, tho. The wannabe datacenters mostly don't
yet exist, and many have been whoa-nellied by locals who were
unimpressed with becoming energy serfs in the name of Big Data (about a
third of your current electric bill is due to datacenters, which get a
lot of subsidies at taxpayer and consumer expense). Even so, they are
scarfing up the ENTIRE market for RAM and GPUs, in anticipation of being
the Next Big Thing (and all trying to get there ahead of the next guy).

And it's a big circle jerk: OpenAI invested billions in NVidia, then
bought billions worth of NVidia GPUs. So the real motivation is moving
tons of "revenue" to artificially inflate the stock price and market cap.

..I sort of get a kick how on the game shows when reading off the list
of "wow's!" for a TV they exclaim it has an AI processor. I'm thinking

Making it capable of screenshotting what you watch and reporting back to
the mothership, and tayloring your "ad experience" to what you watch.
(Yes, this is happening with newer "smart TVs".)

back in the old days one of the "AI processors" was the AGC circuit -- automatic gain control: too strong a signal, automatically trim it a
bit; too strong, boost it a bit.

And that's nothing but a load-balancing algorithm (itself likely just a quadratic equation), doesn't require any "AI" at all.

We in ranch country hear "AI" and think "artificial insemination" then
have to shift gears .... well, we're getting screwed by AI, so maybe
it's all one.

> I haven't played like that but makes sense. My _extremely_ limited
> experiences between Windows and Linux were Linux was either faster or
> about the same. And I need to note this comparison was done decades
> ago.
KM> Back around 1998, Argo dual-booted RedHat6 and Win95. Win95 ran
KM> rings around RH6, which was at best glacial. That was my first
KM> clue that the hype wasn't all it seemed.

Though they've found dual booting isn't that feasible. Downright not
advised of late. Back around then I did have some computers which I

Not anymore, no. GRUB has its own difficulties, and my observation is
that Windows since Win7 rewrites the boot sector every time you switch
OSs, which is trouble begging to happen.

In the long-ago I used to hang out on a forum that was largely Complain
About Windows. And almost universally, the complaint "all of a sudden
Windows won't boot" was followed by an admission that they were
dual-booting with linux "which still works". GRUB updates and nukes the Windows boot sector, and naturally then Windows won't boot.

I have not dual-booted since Argo's era, beyond some experiments not
meant for prime time.

KM> Fireball (4th gen Xeon, 64GB RAM) has about 20 HDDs with various
KM> OSs. Including:
KM> Windows: XP64, Server2008R2 (Win7 server), Win10 Pro, Win11
KM> Workstation Linux: Fedora (what it presently runs), Mageia,
KM> Devuan, Debian, Mint, others I forget. (For some unknown reason,
KM> PCLinuxOS won't run on it.)

It's a diva?!

It's too complicated. PCLinuxOS is "radically simple". <g>

KM> There ya go. That's also why for the Win11 software I want for
KM> the future (pending an expectation that Windows will become By
KM> Subscription and basically a cloud OS) my intent is to work up a
KM> basically portable install, so if the hardware dies I can just
KM> move it to the next PC. Win10 doesn't mind this being horsed from
KM> one PC to the next (most of the time it doesn't even need
KM> reactivation), and I don't see why Win11 would care either.

To me it seems like it should follow how we log in to sites now: doesn't matter which device as long as the user name, password, and whatever
other authentication matches.

Except they're all different companies and they don't share logins. If
they did, it would be trivially easy to pirate ANY software,
authentication or no.

> > .. In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with 'g'.
> KM> A narrating clearly necessitating a course in remedial English,
> KM> for one who doesn't put nutmeg in their hot cocoa. But sure is
> KM> nosing around memes online....perhaps their brain suffered a
> KM> necrotizing infection. <g>
> Did you miss 'nothing'?!
KM> By then I was nodding off. <g>

Frequent slurps of fresh coffee and/or tea!

Tea, that's a thought....

> KM> https://word-lists.com/word-lists/list-of-words-starting-with-n-an
> KM> d-ending-with
> KM> g/
> Good grief! Now I'm wondering if there is a site dedicated to words
> rhyming with 'orange'!
KM> Your wish...
KM> https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/what-rhymes-with-orange

KM> My personal favorite is "door hinge". :D

At least it's more usable!

And for a side bit:
https://comicskingdom.com/rhymes-with-orange/2026-01-01

Oh, good ones!

.. Baby chick found orange in mother's coop:"Look at the orange marmalade."

All wisdom is found in taglines.
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Hello Ky.Moffet!

** On Saturday 03.01.26 - 04:54, Ky.Moffet wrote to Barry Martin:

We in ranch country hear "AI" and think "artificial
insemination" then have to shift gears .... well, we're
getting screwed by AI, so maybe it's all one.

That was too funny! :D

...And almost universally, the complaint "all of a sudden
Windows won't boot" was followed by an admission that they
were dual-booting with linux "which still works". GRUB
updates and nukes the Windows boot sector, and naturally then
Windows won't boot.

I have not dual-booted since Argo's era, beyond some
experiments not meant for prime time.

I wonder how Win11/Linux users are coping with GRUB?
--
../|ug
--- SBBSecho 3.31-Linux
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Hi Ky!

KM> Win11's current requirement an 64bit CPU with the SSE 4.2
KM> instruction set (specifically the POPCNT function), which came in
KM> with the Core2Duo. This was added as of the 22H2 release. 21H2
KM> will actually run on an earlier CPU (someone got it running on an
KM> early Pentium 4, tho it was painful), but is no longer
KM> "supported" (21H2 updates ended about a year ago).
Well I'll admit the version releases codings didn't mean a thing to me
other than identification and level, which everything has in some form. Seems to boil down to if want Microsoft support (and presumably same for Linux and other out there) need to play by their rules.

Yeah. But their rules are rather fuzzy.

Their lawyers are gooood! Make rules which the user has to follow but
the details are somewhat up for interpretation, Only the rule-maker (Microsoft) knows exactly, and so they can flex to their current
preferences.

Win10, on the SAME PANE:
"Your device will no longer receive security updates!
-- proceeds to download major system update and five security
updates -- and still receives daily security updates. Yesterday
it got two.

Ah, that wa the ol' "while supplies last" ploy!

And the Win7 laptop got a security update just last week!

They were feeling benovelant for the holidays?

KM> And despite that instruction set supposedly requiring at least a
KM> Haswell Intel CPU, I can assure you current Win11 runs perfectly
KM> fine on an Ivy Bridge CPU. [points at Fireball]
From my limited knowledge base it would seem as long as the computer hardware met the general requirements of the OS it would run. AFAIK a
64 bit OS will not run on 32-bit hardware, so that would be the first
check. As you mentioned above with the SSE thing, the instruction sets
have to match. ...Keep going down the list. The more tic'd as matching
the better the odds of the old machine running on the new OS.

Yeah. I think they're trying to keep it viable for hardware less
than 10 to 15 years old, despite appearances. The main stumbling
block is the TPM chip, which really is entirely optional, since
it's only needed if you require disk encryption (usually a
terrible idea) and Secure Boot (not so sure that's a good idea
either). TPM actually goes back a long ways; the computer
consigned to the little house is a 2009 Dell, and it has a TPM
header (not sure if it has the chip, but if you have the header
it's a plug-in module that starts at about $20 new).

I could see the good and especially bad points of disk encryption, but
to my thinking not needed unless is a business computer being used
outside of the physical business. File encryption is a different
critter.

KM> So... *technically* as far back as the earliest consumer 64bit
KM> multicore CPUs (that actually did 64bit; some early AMD64 CPUs
KM> did not, and will only run a 32bit OS).
First item on checklist! (I'm supposed to read the whole message
first??!)

LOL. Basics!

I usually consider BBS and e-mail messages (well, the personal ones) as conversations in writing so read paragraph (sometimes two), respond,
read, respond.....

KM> They seem to have dropped the previous specification of an i7-6th
KM> gen or later. Probably because all the cheap Win11 laptops were
KM> arriving with an N-series Celeron, which is about half as fast as
KM> the earliest Core2Duo (but uses very little power, good for
KM> battery life). And Win11 runs adequately well on those N-series
KM> CPUs, despite that they're so much slower than an early Core2Duo. Sometimes trade-offs. A little slower, but great battery life -- that
would be good for usage at a construction site where they don't have
power outlets installed. (Heck, they barely have the walls installed!)

That was the original point of tablet PCs. I remember when the
ads all showed construction sites!

No power, but we're rugged!

KM> I have two netbooks and my mom's old laptop that all have
KM> N-series Celerons. The netbooks (4GB RAM) have Win11, and are
KM> pleasant enough; I regularly use them as portable word
KM> processors. The laptop (upgraded to its 8GB RAM max and all of
KM> HP's crap nuked) has Win10, and it's sluggggggish. In such poor
KM> circumstances, Win11 performs better.
Semi-same with my old Lenovo T61 (though running Ubuntu for
compatibility). Sluggish, but for what I need it for I'll put up with
that.

<looks it up> 2.4GHz Core2Duo, pretty good for a 2007 laptop. https://icecat.biz/us/p/lenovo/8895wea/thinkpad-laptops-thinkpad+t 61-1758081.ht
l

(Where's my 'm'??!!)

Looks about right: I remember there were different versions but overall correct. ...Though now not quite: I added RAM and swapped the HDD for a
SDD.

Given it was designed for Vista, probably shipped with 4GGB RAM
and spinning rust. If you haven't upgraded it and still use it,
might be worthwhile, and easy enough to do. It takes up to 8GB of
DDR2.

Caught me not reading ahead again!

IIRC it originally had 2 GB; just checked: now has 2x 2GB DDR2. Know I checked before buying to be sure of maxing out.

Now has a 1TB SSD. :) ...Using a whopping 4%!

Quick how-to
(note that one must take care not to rip the ribbon cable that
goes to the touchpad)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYkefpMSBso

Your turn to not read ahead! ...Oh.

Forgot where I got the instructions from but detailed manual of steps to replace parts and accompanying drawings. (Porbably IBM/Lenovo knowing
them.)

> Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and
> getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear: we
> get to buy refurbished stuff!!
KM> YES!!
And so us individual end-users buy and start using the stuff the

At a much reduced price, which will perhaps save the consumer PC
market from collapse since RAM is presently priced out of reach
of anyone who isn't Big Corporate.

I haven't looked at the prices as not planning to build anything soon.
About the only items purchasing of late are small peripherals like a USB3 powered hub.

OS-people told the businesses to stop using, but yet they (OS-people)
still have to semi-support the old hardware because it is capable of
using the current software.

It's nothing to do with the OS. Businesses that don't have
massive liability concerns often use quite old stuff that hasn't
seen official support in a decade. Friend supports one-man-band
accountant offices that still use computers and OSs literally old
enough to vote.

So they large question (not 'big' <g>) is why was the old hardware
forced out?!

1) because the OEMs live on the 3 year churn cycle (hence the 3
year warranty), and
2) liability concerns as previously discussed. Unsupported
hardware (anything that's out of warranty) is a liability too. My
sister's office won't even keep a vehicle that's out of warranty
(they sell 'em off to employees, who get a nice well-kept
middle-aged car at a very good price). And no personal vehicles
allowed on job sites, has to be a company car.

OK, makes more sense now.

KM> <crowd assembles on the curb, waiting for AI datacenters to start
KM> churning hardware....>
(Must be virtual hardware as data is just information.)

Too bad it's not all virtual.... but the data has to live
somewhere, and be processed somewhere. However, the vast majority
does run on some species of virtual machine. <g>

Yes: just doesn't exist in the atmosphere. Has to have some sort of 'rootings' in memory and hard drives -- maybe also SSD -- but some
physical space. ...I could even earn a little money by renting extra
storage space on the computers here for part of the cloud.

KM> Cuz the bloody AI craze is why the price of RAM quadrupled
KM> overnight, and why SSDs suddenly got scarce (and doubled in
KM> price, and that's still rising).
As with everything due to supply and demand.

This is an artificial demand, tho. The wannabe datacenters mostly
don't yet exist, and many have been whoa-nellied by locals who
were unimpressed with becoming energy serfs in the name of Big
Data (about a third of your current electric bill is due to
datacenters, which get a lot of subsidies at taxpayer and
consumer expense). Even so, they are scarfing up the ENTIRE
market for RAM and GPUs, in anticipation of being the Next Big
Thing (and all trying to get there ahead of the next guy).

Hope for a big crash and those prices will plummet!! I'll attach 18
TB drives to my spare Raspberry Pi 3's!!!

And it's a big circle jerk: OpenAI invested billions in NVidia,
then bought billions worth of NVidia GPUs. So the real motivation
is moving tons of "revenue" to artificially inflate the stock
price and market cap.

Well that's one way to get your money back!

..I sort of get a kick how on the game shows when reading off the list
of "wow's!" for a TV they exclaim it has an AI processor. I'm thinking

Making it capable of screenshotting what you watch and reporting
back to the mothership, and tayloring your "ad experience" to
what you watch. (Yes, this is happening with newer "smart TVs".)

I've read that. For me generally not working: TV is OTA -- live could
still be custom-tailored but most of my TV watching is recorded. Which includes recording the commercials transmitted at the time. Of which I
usually FF over, so still a chance for a bit of subliminal advertising.
(Some of that fru-fru high-end cat- and dog food looks like a high-end restaurant presentation!)

Recording PlutoTV I get no commercials; watching live on the semi-smart
TV (it has a few strange quirks like to change channels can't use the
buttons on the remote any longer so the on-screen virtual keyboard, but
can't 'finish' by clicking the virtual 'OK' button but have to wait for
it to determine no more numbers and it decides to change. The updated instructions on their website says the proper way works, and the new
remote doesn't work with this model).

...Where was I? Live PlutoTV does give commericals, many local inserts.

back in the old days one of the "AI processors" was the AGC circuit -- automatic gain control: too strong a signal, automatically trim it a
bit; too strong, boost it a bit.

And that's nothing but a load-balancing algorithm (itself likely
just a quadratic equation), doesn't require any "AI" at all.

Only if one really stretches the definition!

We in ranch country hear "AI" and think "artificial insemination"
then have to shift gears .... well, we're getting screwed by AI,
so maybe it's all one.

<chuckle> That is sort of the problem with abbreviations: have to
consider the context. ...Plumbers probably get confused when we talk
about "seepy U's". <g>

> I haven't played like that but makes sense. My _extremely_ limited
> experiences between Windows and Linux were Linux was either faster or
> about the same. And I need to note this comparison was done decades
> ago.
KM> Back around 1998, Argo dual-booted RedHat6 and Win95. Win95 ran
KM> rings around RH6, which was at best glacial. That was my first
KM> clue that the hype wasn't all it seemed.
Though they've found dual booting isn't that feasible. Downright not advised of late. Back around then I did have some computers which I

Not anymore, no. GRUB has its own difficulties, and my
observation is that Windows since Win7 rewrites the boot sector
every time you switch OSs, which is trouble begging to happen.

Oh yeah!

In the long-ago I used to hang out on a forum that was largely
Complain About Windows. And almost universally, the complaint
"all of a sudden Windows won't boot" was followed by an admission
that they were dual-booting with linux "which still works". GRUB
updates and nukes the Windows boot sector, and naturally then
Windows won't boot.

"Where'd my starting instructions go?!" ...I had that type of problem
when the SSD was failing: good news is I was able to fsck and recover
the data and so continue, (The SSD has since been replaced.)

I have not dual-booted since Argo's era, beyond some experiments
not meant for prime time.

Experiments are good! ...I can sort of understand how the dual boot is supposed to work. I think the problem is when the new OS wants to write
to the boot sector, but the boot sector is currently under control of
the old OS. Unless there's an univeral method to do boot instructions
for all OS it's not going to work. (Half-thinking like the boot sector
is switching languages from French to German.)

KM> Fireball (4th gen Xeon, 64GB RAM) has about 20 HDDs with various
KM> OSs. Including:
KM> Windows: XP64, Server2008R2 (Win7 server), Win10 Pro, Win11
KM> Workstation Linux: Fedora (what it presently runs), Mageia,
KM> Devuan, Debian, Mint, others I forget. (For some unknown reason,
KM> PCLinuxOS won't run on it.)
It's a diva?!

It's too complicated. PCLinuxOS is "radically simple". <g>

To make things simple on the outside (to the user) needs to be able to
do all the complicated stuff on the inside.

> > .. In the English language nothing starts with 'n' and ends with

g'.

> KM> A narrating clearly necessitating a course in remedial English,
> KM> for one who doesn't put nutmeg in their hot cocoa. But sure is
> KM> nosing around memes online....perhaps their brain suffered a
> KM> necrotizing infection. <g>
> Did you miss 'nothing'?!
KM> By then I was nodding off. <g>
Frequent slurps of fresh coffee and/or tea!

Tea, that's a thought....

Some teas have caffeine -- some more than coffee. Just in case you're sensitive towards caffeine. ...I go for the flavored teas for a taste difference. Earl Grey is a nice traditional option; there's a nice apple-cinnamon one, chai... I keep them in a round box from which I
was gifted last year? - two years ago? - which had a flavour variety.
Will buy a box or two when on sale and restock the container --
sometimes look for a specific one, sometimes a random pick.

.. Baby chick found orange in mother's coop:"Look at the orange marmalade."

All wisdom is found in taglines.

Keeping it short and to the point.

¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®


... Wisdom has been chasing you but you have always been faster.
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AUGUST ABOLINS wrote:

Hello Ky.Moffet!

** On Saturday 03.01.26 - 04:54, Ky.Moffet wrote to Barry Martin:

We in ranch country hear "AI" and think "artificial
insemination" then have to shift gears .... well, we're
getting screwed by AI, so maybe it's all one.

That was too funny! :D

Ranchers, the same folks who invented the fork in the road...

...a literal fork, six feet tall.

...And almost universally, the complaint "all of a sudden
Windows won't boot" was followed by an admission that they
were dual-booting with linux "which still works". GRUB
updates and nukes the Windows boot sector, and naturally then
Windows won't boot.

I have not dual-booted since Argo's era, beyond some
experiments not meant for prime time.

I wonder how Win11/Linux users are coping with GRUB?

I haven't paid much attention, but I imagine all the same horror stories apply.
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

> Well I'll admit the version releases codings didn't mean a thing to me
> other than identification and level, which everything has in some form.
> Seems to boil down to if want Microsoft support (and presumably same for
> Linux and other out there) need to play by their rules.
KM> Yeah. But their rules are rather fuzzy.

Their lawyers are gooood! Make rules which the user has to follow but
the details are somewhat up for interpretation, Only the rule-maker (Microsoft) knows exactly, and so they can flex to their current
preferences.

You can bet that if HP and Dell and Enterprise Business were to put
their foot down, Win11's "system requirements" would evaporate
overnight. Because OEMs like HP and Dell and Enterprise Business are Microsoft's REAL customers. But it's all to a hardware OEM's advantage
if sysreqs require a whole new monkey, and Enterprise Business has its
own pressing needs toward keeping ahead of liability.

Home users are not customers, they are a support cost. (And occasional
free beta testers.)

KM> And the Win7 laptop got a security update just last week!

They were feeling benovelant for the holidays?

I think they have an automated build farm that doesn't distinguish, and
the security updates are marked for compatibility with the security
engine (Windows Defender, or whatever they're calling it now), not with
the OS version.

The real surprise, tho, was Win8.1 getting a full system update last August.

KM> block is the TPM chip, which really is entirely optional, since
KM> it's only needed if you require disk encryption (usually a

I could see the good and especially bad points of disk encryption, but
to my thinking not needed unless is a business computer being used
outside of the physical business.

There are always gamers who see it as SHINY and just have to have it,
and it also keeps your parents and little brother from snooping.

But yeah, unless you you really need the security (laptop at job site,
and the like) it's a disaster in training. It's not if you lose your
security key, it's when.

File encryption is a different
critter.

Yep.

> First item on checklist! (I'm supposed to read the whole message
> first??!)
KM> LOL. Basics!

I usually consider BBS and e-mail messages (well, the personal ones) as conversations in writing so read paragraph (sometimes two), respond,
read, respond.....

Yakkity yak!

> Semi-same with my old Lenovo T61 (though running Ubuntu for
> compatibility). Sluggish, but for what I need it for I'll put up with
> that.
KM> <looks it up> 2.4GHz Core2Duo, pretty good for a 2007 laptop.
KM> https://icecat.biz/us/p/lenovo/8895wea/thinkpad-laptops-thinkpad+t
KM> 61-1758081.ht
KM> l

(Where's my 'm'??!!)

Looks about right: I remember there were different versions but overall correct. ...Though now not quite: I added RAM and swapped the HDD for a
SDD.

Well, that's most of the upgrade...

KM> Given it was designed for Vista, probably shipped with 4GGB RAM
KM> and spinning rust. If you haven't upgraded it and still use it,
KM> might be worthwhile, and easy enough to do. It takes up to 8GB of
KM> DDR2.

Caught me not reading ahead again!

It's these realtime yaks, they arrive that way. <g>

IIRC it originally had 2 GB; just checked: now has 2x 2GB DDR2. Know I checked before buying to be sure of maxing out.

According to what I can find, and normal for Core2Duo, it should support
8GB. And that would make a lot of difference for Ubuntu performance.

Now has a 1TB SSD. :) ...Using a whopping 4%!

LOL. Not tremendously busy, is it. :D

KM> Quick how-to
KM> (note that one must take care not to rip the ribbon cable that
KM> goes to the touchpad)
KM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYkefpMSBso

Your turn to not read ahead! ...Oh.

Actually, I usually reply from the bottom up...

Forgot where I got the instructions from but detailed manual of steps to replace parts and accompanying drawings. (Porbably IBM/Lenovo knowing
them.)

They publish service manuals, yeah.

> > Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and
> > getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear: we
> > get to buy refurbished stuff!!
> KM> YES!!
> And so us individual end-users buy and start using the stuff the
KM> At a much reduced price, which will perhaps save the consumer PC
KM> market from collapse since RAM is presently priced out of reach
KM> of anyone who isn't Big Corporate.

I haven't looked at the prices as not planning to build anything soon.
About the only items purchasing of late are small peripherals like a USB3 powered hub.

Yeah. I dithered and wasn't really happy with the upgrade options and
now THIS...

....well, there's newer hardware coming from my sister's office
discards, but experience suggests it will still need a RAM upgrade!

> KM> <crowd assembles on the curb, waiting for AI datacenters to start
> KM> churning hardware....>
> (Must be virtual hardware as data is just information.)
KM> Too bad it's not all virtual.... but the data has to live
KM> somewhere, and be processed somewhere. However, the vast majority
KM> does run on some species of virtual machine. <g>

Yes: just doesn't exist in the atmosphere. Has to have some sort of 'rootings' in memory and hard drives -- maybe also SSD -- but some
physical space. ...I could even earn a little money by renting extra
storage space on the computers here for part of the cloud.

Five cents??

Cuz cloud HDDs now run 20TB, and you're paying a lot more by the byte
for electricity and bandwidth...

Hope for a big crash and those prices will plummet!! I'll attach 18
TB drives to my spare Raspberry Pi 3's!!!

I feel sorry for the Pi. <g>

KM> And it's a big circle jerk: OpenAI invested billions in NVidia,
KM> then bought billions worth of NVidia GPUs. So the real motivation
KM> is moving tons of "revenue" to artificially inflate the stock
KM> price and market cap.

Well that's one way to get your money back!

Precisely. And an astonishingly inflated stock price and market cap.

> ..I sort of get a kick how on the game shows when reading off the list
> of "wow's!" for a TV they exclaim it has an AI processor. I'm thinking
KM> Making it capable of screenshotting what you watch and reporting
KM> back to the mothership, and tayloring your "ad experience" to
KM> what you watch. (Yes, this is happening with newer "smart TVs".)

I've read that. For me generally not working: TV is OTA -- live could

For me not working because TV not hooked up!

still be custom-tailored but most of my TV watching is recorded. Which includes recording the commercials transmitted at the time. Of which I usually FF over, so still a chance for a bit of subliminal advertising.
(Some of that fru-fru high-end cat- and dog food looks like a high-end restaurant presentation!)

Same marketing, for sure.

..Where was I? Live PlutoTV does give commericals, many local inserts.

If it blew hard enough, Ohio. <g>

KM> We in ranch country hear "AI" and think "artificial insemination"
KM> then have to shift gears .... well, we're getting screwed by AI,
KM> so maybe it's all one.

<chuckle> That is sort of the problem with abbreviations: have to
consider the context. ...Plumbers probably get confused when we talk
about "seepy U's". <g>

LOL, smart plumbing. <g>

KM> In the long-ago I used to hang out on a forum that was largely
KM> Complain About Windows. And almost universally, the complaint
KM> "all of a sudden Windows won't boot" was followed by an admission
KM> that they were dual-booting with linux "which still works". GRUB
KM> updates and nukes the Windows boot sector, and naturally then
KM> Windows won't boot.

"Where'd my starting instructions go?!" ...I had that type of problem
when the SSD was failing: good news is I was able to fsck and recover
the data and so continue, (The SSD has since been replaced.)

fsck doesn't recover data; to clear the naughty bits, it usually deletes
the offending file. I've never seen it delete OS files, but I've seen it
nuke multiple GB of user data.

KM> I have not dual-booted since Argo's era, beyond some experiments
KM> not meant for prime time.

Experiments are good! ...I can sort of understand how the dual boot is supposed to work. I think the problem is when the new OS wants to write
to the boot sector, but the boot sector is currently under control of
the old OS. Unless there's an univeral method to do boot instructions
for all OS it's not going to work. (Half-thinking like the boot sector
is switching languages from French to German.)

The problem is when GRUB is updated, it overwrites everything.

And apparently does not understand Secure Boot, and maybe not UEFI boot.

> KM> Fireball (4th gen Xeon, 64GB RAM) has about 20 HDDs with various
> KM> OSs. Including:
> KM> Windows: XP64, Server2008R2 (Win7 server), Win10 Pro, Win11
> KM> Workstation Linux: Fedora (what it presently runs), Mageia,
> KM> Devuan, Debian, Mint, others I forget. (For some unknown reason,
> KM> PCLinuxOS won't run on it.)
> It's a diva?!
KM> It's too complicated. PCLinuxOS is "radically simple". <g>

To make things simple on the outside (to the user) needs to be able to
do all the complicated stuff on the inside.

That's the philosophy!

> Frequent slurps of fresh coffee and/or tea!
KM> Tea, that's a thought....

Some teas have caffeine -- some more than coffee. Just in case you're sensitive towards caffeine. ...I go for the flavored teas for a taste difference. Earl Grey is a nice traditional option; there's a nice apple-cinnamon one, chai... I keep them in a round box from which I

Yuck!

was gifted last year? - two years ago? - which had a flavour variety.
Will buy a box or two when on sale and restock the container --
sometimes look for a specific one, sometimes a random pick.

Irish Breakfast in the morning, Moroccan Mint (usually as Bigelow
Perfectly Mint) in the afternoon, that's my drug of choice.

> .. Baby chick found orange in mother's coop:"Look at the orange marmalade."
KM> All wisdom is found in taglines.

Keeping it short and to the point.

Debate technique:
Just the point, please!
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Re: negate the new Win11
By: Barry Martin to Ky Moffet on Sun Jan 04 2026 09:15:00

Plumbers probably get confused when we talk about "seepy U's". <g>

Then confound them with piping data or flushing the cache.
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Hi Ky!

> Well I'll admit the version releases codings didn't mean a thing to me
> other than identification and level, which everything has in some form.
> Seems to boil down to if want Microsoft support (and presumably same for
> Linux and other out there) need to play by their rules.
KM> Yeah. But their rules are rather fuzzy.
Their lawyers are gooood! Make rules which the user has to follow but
the details are somewhat up for interpretation, Only the rule-maker (Microsoft) knows exactly, and so they can flex to their current preferences.

You can bet that if HP and Dell and Enterprise Business were to
put their foot down, Win11's "system requirements" would
evaporate overnight. Because OEMs like HP and Dell and Enterprise
Business are Microsoft's REAL customers. But it's all to a
hardware OEM's advantage if sysreqs require a whole new monkey,
and Enterprise Business has its own pressing needs toward keeping
ahead of liability.

Well, that's the thing: are HP, Dell and business that 'daring', or have
they been bamboozled by Microsoft? (Sort of reminds me of the 'guy
behind the curtain' in the _Wizard of Oz_.) To me it makes sense to at
least partially support old systems yet I can also see where supporting
old systems is a waste of resources. (Probably a better term
available.) And probably most importantly: HP and Dell want businesses
to buy new -- they make money off of new.

Home users are not customers, they are a support cost. (And
occasional free beta testers.)

My thinking is more than occasionally but I agree with the essence of
the paragraph.

KM> And the Win7 laptop got a security update just last week!
They were feeling benovelant for the holidays?

I think they have an automated build farm that doesn't
distinguish, and the security updates are marked for
compatibility with the security engine (Windows Defender, or
whatever they're calling it now), not with the OS version.

That would make sense: easier to list.

The real surprise, tho, was Win8.1 getting a full system update
last August.

I'm thinking tied to finding some file, but good news!

KM> block is the TPM chip, which really is entirely optional, since
KM> it's only needed if you require disk encryption (usually a
I could see the good and especially bad points of disk encryption, but
to my thinking not needed unless is a business computer being used
outside of the physical business.

There are always gamers who see it as SHINY and just have to have
it, and it also keeps your parents and little brother from
snooping.

As I've mentioned other places, I really don't care if I'm using
tomorrow's hardware, software, etc., or old stuff -- main requirement
is it works for the applictaion I'm using it in. I'm perfectly happy
using a ten year old video card in the new-ish system downstairs because
all I need is a 1920x1080 HDMI output. OTOH if I had that video card in
a different system I would not be as happy because the second location
has a sound bar and the old video card does not support eARC (think
that's the protocol).

And we've discussed how I was misled into thinking Gamer's Gear is
Great Gear. For them, yes, for me, no.

But yeah, unless you you really need the security (laptop at job
site, and the like) it's a disaster in training. It's not if you
lose your security key, it's when.

And might not even be the user's fault! I'm going the Post Office later
this morning so they can verify who I am. (!) I can't get into my
Social Security account because Login.gov can't re-verify me (even
though I've used that login access previously.

Steps:
Enter user and password.
Login.gov sends one-time use code to cell phone.
Login.gov asks and receives permission to send data to cell phone to
begin verification process.
Take picture of front of drivers license via cell phone. "Verified."
Take picture of back of drivers license via cell phone. "Verified."
Take selfie via cell phone. "Verified."
Follow instructions to return to computer so it can send a new
verification code to the cell phone. Error message seomthing like
that number isn't associated with me. (Didn't you [Login.gov] send
the initial verification code to that cell number and you auto-
entered the cell number, not me??!! Didn't you just send to and
accept from the photo link the cell phone number you now say
doens't link to me?)
Tried alternate number: land line (now VoIP) which I've had since
~1985. That number isn't associated either.

Had tried a couple of times around Christmas. Tried again last night.
Off to the Post Office this morning. (That's where the website says to
go.)

> First item on checklist! (I'm supposed to read the whole message
> first??!)
KM> LOL. Basics!
I usually consider BBS and e-mail messages (well, the personal ones) as conversations in writing so read paragraph (sometimes two), respond,
read, respond.....

Yakkity yak!

https://youtu.be/4hvyI3hwdrQ?list=RD4hvyI3hwdrQ

> Semi-same with my old Lenovo T61 (though running Ubuntu for
> compatibility). Sluggish, but for what I need it for I'll put up with
> that.
KM> <looks it up> 2.4GHz Core2Duo, pretty good for a 2007 laptop.
KM> https://icecat.biz/us/p/lenovo/8895wea/thinkpad-laptops-thinkpad+t
KM> 61-1758081.ht
KM> l
(Where's my 'm'??!!)

Gone, but not forgotten!

Looks about right: I remember there were different versions but overall correct. ...Though now not quite: I added RAM and swapped the HDD for a SDD.

Well, that's most of the upgrade...

Yes.

IIRC it originally had 2 GB; just checked: now has 2x 2GB DDR2. Know I checked before buying to be sure of maxing out.

According to what I can find, and normal for Core2Duo, it should
support 8GB. And that would make a lot of difference for Ubuntu performance.

I'm going to re-check. I know there are multiple 'letter combination' versions of the T61; also motherboard compatabilities.

Now has a 1TB SSD. :) ...Using a whopping 4%!

LOL. Not tremendously busy, is it. :D

<chuckle> No. Doesn't get used all that often. ...I know I swapped
out the hard drive mainly to speed things up. The huge size was more
because for a few dollars more I was able to (probably) double the
storage, and when the thing eventualy dies I could reuse a larger SDD
easier than a small one.

KM> Quick how-to
KM> (note that one must take care not to rip the ribbon cable that
KM> goes to the touchpad)
KM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYkefpMSBso
Your turn to not read ahead! ...Oh.

Actually, I usually reply from the bottom up...

So you've read my replies before I answer?!

Forgot where I got the instructions from but detailed manual of steps to replace parts and accompanying drawings. (Porbably IBM/Lenovo knowing them.)

They publish service manuals, yeah.

More like service tombs by their size and detail!

> > Yes, between saving a thousand dollars for new computer stuff and
> > getting socked billions for keeping it I think the answer is clear:

> > get to buy refurbished stuff!!
> KM> YES!!
> And so us individual end-users buy and start using the stuff the
KM> At a much reduced price, which will perhaps save the consumer PC
KM> market from collapse since RAM is presently priced out of reach
KM> of anyone who isn't Big Corporate.
I haven't looked at the prices as not planning to build anything soon.
About the only items purchasing of late are small peripherals like a USB3 powered hub.

Yeah. I dithered and wasn't really happy with the upgrade options
and now THIS...

I might be in better shape, only because of what I do with computers
around here: most of the 'remote' computers (outside of the Computer
Room) using a desktop could be replaced by a Raspberry Pi, which right
now go for $100-200 (I'm including case and some peripherals in that
price).

....well, there's newer hardware coming from my sister's office
discards, but experience suggests it will still need a RAM
upgrade!

Almost the most expensive part! The good news is physically easiest to
do, and can sometimes be done in steps: leave paired slots empty for
now, etc.

> KM> <crowd assembles on the curb, waiting for AI datacenters to start
> KM> churning hardware....>
> (Must be virtual hardware as data is just information.)
KM> Too bad it's not all virtual.... but the data has to live
KM> somewhere, and be processed somewhere. However, the vast majority
KM> does run on some species of virtual machine. <g>
Yes: just doesn't exist in the atmosphere. Has to have some sort of 'rootings' in memory and hard drives -- maybe also SSD -- but some
physical space. ...I could even earn a little money by renting extra storage space on the computers here for part of the cloud.

Five cents??

That's about what I figure the proft would be: have to buy the hardware,
pay for the electricity. Also figure out some sort of storage:
shelving/rack. Heck I don't have the physical space for my stuff now!

Cuz cloud HDDs now run 20TB, and you're paying a lot more by the
byte for electricity and bandwidth...

Hope for a big crash and those prices will plummet!! I'll attach 18
TB drives to my spare Raspberry Pi 3's!!!

I feel sorry for the Pi. <g>

I'd give it a cooling fan and a drip basin for the sweat!

KM> And it's a big circle jerk: OpenAI invested billions in NVidia,
KM> then bought billions worth of NVidia GPUs. So the real motivation
KM> is moving tons of "revenue" to artificially inflate the stock
KM> price and market cap.
Well that's one way to get your money back!

Precisely. And an astonishingly inflated stock price and market
cap.

And I wonder who made money on all that!

> ..I sort of get a kick how on the game shows when reading off the list
> of "wow's!" for a TV they exclaim it has an AI processor. I'm thinking
KM> Making it capable of screenshotting what you watch and reporting
KM> back to the mothership, and tayloring your "ad experience" to
KM> what you watch. (Yes, this is happening with newer "smart TVs".)
I've read that. For me generally not working: TV is OTA -- live could

For me not working because TV not hooked up!

They can make a large monitor!

Oh, speaking of monitors, I have one for the cameras around here (not
really 'security' but more monitoring). Added some (the wireless --> PoE project, which is on hold because of the weather and other factors) so
neded a larger monitor to see them all (otherwise small images). Wanted
to use a monitor I already have, tried portrait (vs landscape) -- worked decently except the Fresnel lens or whatever they now use was angled
wrong: if I was in the wrong position the lens did some weird
colour-shifting.

KM> We in ranch country hear "AI" and think "artificial insemination"
KM> then have to shift gears .... well, we're getting screwed by AI,
KM> so maybe it's all one.
<chuckle> That is sort of the problem with abbreviations: have to
consider the context. ...Plumbers probably get confused when we talk
about "seepy U's". <g>

LOL, smart plumbing. <g>

Zen plumbing: go with the flow!

KM> In the long-ago I used to hang out on a forum that was largely
KM> Complain About Windows. And almost universally, the complaint
KM> "all of a sudden Windows won't boot" was followed by an admission
KM> that they were dual-booting with linux "which still works". GRUB
KM> updates and nukes the Windows boot sector, and naturally then
KM> Windows won't boot.
"Where'd my starting instructions go?!" ...I had that type of problem
when the SSD was failing: good news is I was able to fsck and recover
the data and so continue, (The SSD has since been replaced.)

fsck doesn't recover data; to clear the naughty bits, it usually
deletes the offending file. I've never seen it delete OS files,
but I've seen it nuke multiple GB of user data.

Whatever it did it fixed the problem so the computer could boot again
but I knew if there was a problem once it's not going to get better.
New SSD!

KM> I have not dual-booted since Argo's era, beyond some experiments
KM> not meant for prime time.
Experiments are good! ...I can sort of understand how the dual boot is supposed to work. I think the problem is when the new OS wants to write
to the boot sector, but the boot sector is currently under control of
the old OS. Unless there's an univeral method to do boot instructions
for all OS it's not going to work. (Half-thinking like the boot sector
is switching languages from French to German.)

The problem is when GRUB is updated, it overwrites everything.

And there goes the Windows boot!

And apparently does not understand Secure Boot, and maybe not
UEFI boot.

Does anybody?!

> KM> Fireball (4th gen Xeon, 64GB RAM) has about 20 HDDs with various
> KM> OSs. Including:
> KM> Windows: XP64, Server2008R2 (Win7 server), Win10 Pro, Win11
> KM> Workstation Linux: Fedora (what it presently runs), Mageia,
> KM> Devuan, Debian, Mint, others I forget. (For some unknown reason,
> KM> PCLinuxOS won't run on it.)
> It's a diva?!
KM> It's too complicated. PCLinuxOS is "radically simple". <g>
To make things simple on the outside (to the user) needs to be able to
do all the complicated stuff on the inside.

That's the philosophy!

One of those good things/bad things situations. It's nice to be able to
click or type a simple command and the computer magically does it.
Problem is, if the computer doens't understand then what if the user
supposed to do? Nice to know a little of the barely-techincal stuff like command line to give better instructions.

> Frequent slurps of fresh coffee and/or tea!
KM> Tea, that's a thought....
Some teas have caffeine -- some more than coffee. Just in case you're sensitive towards caffeine. ...I go for the flavored teas for a taste difference. Earl Grey is a nice traditional option; there's a nice apple-cinnamon one, chai... I keep them in a round box from which I

Yuck!

More for me!

was gifted last year? - two years ago? - which had a flavour variety.
Will buy a box or two when on sale and restock the container --
sometimes look for a specific one, sometimes a random pick.

Irish Breakfast in the morning, Moroccan Mint (usually as Bigelow Perfectly Mint) in the afternoon, that's my drug of choice.

Off-hand not recalling the Irish Breakfast (whiskey and potatoes scented? <g>)

> .. Baby chick found orange in mother's coop:"Look at the orange

armalade

"

KM> All wisdom is found in taglines.
Keeping it short and to the point.

Debate technique:
Just the point, please!

Joe Friday: Just the facts.
Colombo: Oh, and one more thing....

¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®


... I want to be buried with my old LPs: it will be my vinyl resting place.
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Plumbers probably get confused when we talk about "seepy U's". <g>

Then confound them with piping data or flushing the cache.

Then have them check out the heat sink!

¯ ®
¯ BarryMartin3@MyMetronet.NET ®
¯ ®


... The horror continues....
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BARRY MARTIN wrote:

Hi Ky!

KM> You can bet that if HP and Dell and Enterprise Business were to
KM> put their foot down, Win11's "system requirements" would
KM> evaporate overnight. Because OEMs like HP and Dell and Enterprise
KM> Business are Microsoft's REAL customers. But it's all to a
KM> hardware OEM's advantage if sysreqs require a whole new monkey,
KM> and Enterprise Business has its own pressing needs toward keeping
KM> ahead of liability.

Well, that's the thing: are HP, Dell and business that 'daring', or have
they been bamboozled by Microsoft? (Sort of reminds me of the 'guy

They certainly have a symbiosis -- Microsoft does an upgrade, so the
OEMs get a demand surge, and that demand surge is accompanied by OEM
Windows licenses. Both benefit.

KM> Home users are not customers, they are a support cost. (And
KM> occasional free beta testers.)

My thinking is more than occasionally but I agree with the essence of
the paragraph.

LOL, okay, all the time. <g>

> KM> And the Win7 laptop got a security update just last week!
> They were feeling benovelant for the holidays?
KM> I think they have an automated build farm that doesn't
KM> distinguish, and the security updates are marked for
KM> compatibility with the security engine (Windows Defender, or
KM> whatever they're calling it now), not with the OS version.

That would make sense: easier to list.

The security updates are all the same Knowledge Base item number, so....

KM> The real surprise, tho, was Win8.1 getting a full system update
KM> last August.

I'm thinking tied to finding some file, but good news!

I think it's just the build farm doing its thing with no supervision.
There's really not much difference in the guts from 8 onward.

And we've discussed how I was misled into thinking Gamer's Gear is
Great Gear. For them, yes, for me, no.

Yeah. Great only if you churn hardware twice a year.

KM> But yeah, unless you you really need the security (laptop at job
KM> site, and the like) it's a disaster in training. It's not if you
KM> lose your security key, it's when.

And might not even be the user's fault! I'm going the Post Office later
this morning so they can verify who I am. (!) I can't get into my
Social Security account because Login.gov can't re-verify me (even
though I've used that login access previously.

Are you sure you're you?? :D

Steps:
Enter user and password.
Login.gov sends one-time use code to cell phone.
Login.gov asks and receives permission to send data to cell phone to
begin verification process.
Take picture of front of drivers license via cell phone. "Verified."
Take picture of back of drivers license via cell phone. "Verified."
Take selfie via cell phone. "Verified."
Follow instructions to return to computer so it can send a new
verification code to the cell phone. Error message seomthing like
that number isn't associated with me. (Didn't you [Login.gov] send
the initial verification code to that cell number and you auto-
entered the cell number, not me??!! Didn't you just send to and
accept from the photo link the cell phone number you now say
doens't link to me?)
Tried alternate number: land line (now VoIP) which I've had since
~1985. That number isn't associated either.

I see the problem. You forgot to sacrifice a black chicken.

Had tried a couple of times around Christmas. Tried again last night.
Off to the Post Office this morning. (That's where the website says to
go.)

And you BELIEVED it??!

> > First item on checklist! (I'm supposed to read the whole message
> > first??!)
> KM> LOL. Basics!
> I usually consider BBS and e-mail messages (well, the personal ones) as
> conversations in writing so read paragraph (sometimes two), respond,
> read, respond.....
KM> Yakkity yak!

https://youtu.be/4hvyI3hwdrQ?list=RD4hvyI3hwdrQ

LOL, first thought. Second:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwEi4ReZHYE

> IIRC it originally had 2 GB; just checked: now has 2x 2GB DDR2. Know I
> checked before buying to be sure of maxing out.
KM> According to what I can find, and normal for Core2Duo, it should
KM> support 8GB. And that would make a lot of difference for Ubuntu
KM> performance.

I'm going to re-check. I know there are multiple 'letter combination' versions of the T61; also motherboard compatabilities.

Might be. My Thinkstation comes in two very different sub-models,
fortunately Fireball is the later edition that is much more capable.

> Now has a 1TB SSD. :) ...Using a whopping 4%!
KM> LOL. Not tremendously busy, is it. :D

<chuckle> No. Doesn't get used all that often. ...I know I swapped
out the hard drive mainly to speed things up. The huge size was more
because for a few dollars more I was able to (probably) double the
storage, and when the thing eventualy dies I could reuse a larger SDD
easier than a small one.

For a while 1TB SSD was like $50. Now it's twice that....

> KM> Quick how-to
> KM> (note that one must take care not to rip the ribbon cable that
> KM> goes to the touchpad)
> KM> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYkefpMSBso
> Your turn to not read ahead! ...Oh.
KM> Actually, I usually reply from the bottom up...

So you've read my replies before I answer?!

It's how my time machine works.

> Forgot where I got the instructions from but detailed manual of steps to
> replace parts and accompanying drawings. (Porbably IBM/Lenovo knowing
> them.)
KM> They publish service manuals, yeah.

More like service tombs by their size and detail!

Some were! Not anymore. :(

KM> Yeah. I dithered and wasn't really happy with the upgrade options
KM> and now THIS...

I might be in better shape, only because of what I do with computers
around here: most of the 'remote' computers (outside of the Computer
Room) using a desktop could be replaced by a Raspberry Pi, which right
now go for $100-200 (I'm including case and some peripherals in that
price).

Sometimes that's all you need. Like the internet access box in the
little house -- it's nothing much, but it's good enough. Tho a RAM
upgrade did wonders for it. And replacing the Seagate HDD would help too
(poor or no caching).

KM> ....well, there's newer hardware coming from my sister's office
KM> discards, but experience suggests it will still need a RAM
KM> upgrade!

Almost the most expensive part! The good news is physically easiest to
do, and can sometimes be done in steps: leave paired slots empty for
now, etc.

Yeah, wait for the full upgrade until the used parts hit the market.

> physical space. ...I could even earn a little money by renting extra
> storage space on the computers here for part of the cloud.
KM> Five cents??

That's about what I figure the proft would be: have to buy the hardware,
pay for the electricity. Also figure out some sort of storage: shelving/rack. Heck I don't have the physical space for my stuff now!

All that!

KM> Cuz cloud HDDs now run 20TB, and you're paying a lot more by the
KM> byte for electricity and bandwidth...
> Hope for a big crash and those prices will plummet!! I'll attach 18
> TB drives to my spare Raspberry Pi 3's!!!
KM> I feel sorry for the Pi. <g>

I'd give it a cooling fan and a drip basin for the sweat!

LOL, it may need it.

> KM> And it's a big circle jerk: OpenAI invested billions in NVidia,
> KM> then bought billions worth of NVidia GPUs. So the real motivation
> KM> is moving tons of "revenue" to artificially inflate the stock
> KM> price and market cap.
> Well that's one way to get your money back!
KM> Precisely. And an astonishingly inflated stock price and market
KM> cap.

And I wonder who made money on all that!

Gee, I can't figure that out....

> I've read that. For me generally not working: TV is OTA -- live could
KM> For me not working because TV not hooked up!

They can make a large monitor!

I have had that thought.. it's 1080p, so good enough....

Oh, speaking of monitors, I have one for the cameras around here (not
really 'security' but more monitoring). Added some (the wireless --> PoE project, which is on hold because of the weather and other factors) so
neded a larger monitor to see them all (otherwise small images). Wanted
to use a monitor I already have, tried portrait (vs landscape) -- worked decently except the Fresnel lens or whatever they now use was angled
wrong: if I was in the wrong position the lens did some weird colour-shifting.

You were shifting into a different dimension.

> about "seepy U's". <g>
KM> LOL, smart plumbing. <g>

Zen plumbing: go with the flow!

Too much going and not enough flow!

KM> fsck doesn't recover data; to clear the naughty bits, it usually
KM> deletes the offending file. I've never seen it delete OS files,
KM> but I've seen it nuke multiple GB of user data.

Whatever it did it fixed the problem so the computer could boot again
but I knew if there was a problem once it's not going to get better.
New SSD!

Yeah, it'll fix things so it boots. It doesn't recover files. Doesn't
even try.

KM> The problem is when GRUB is updated, it overwrites everything.

And there goes the Windows boot!

YUP!

KM> And apparently does not understand Secure Boot, and maybe not
KM> UEFI boot.

Does anybody?!

Uh, now that you mention it....

KM> Irish Breakfast in the morning, Moroccan Mint (usually as Bigelow
KM> Perfectly Mint) in the afternoon, that's my drug of choice.

Off-hand not recalling the Irish Breakfast (whiskey and potatoes scented? <g>)

Plain dark black tea. Strongly tea-flavored stuff.

KM> Just the point, please!

Joe Friday: Just the facts.
Colombo: Oh, and one more thing....

LOLOL true.
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